Joe Rogan – Does Marijuana Cause Psychosis, Violent Crime | JRE Pot Debate
Joe Rogan – Does Marijuana Cause Psychosis, Violent Crime | JRE Pot Debate
Taken from Joe Rogan Experience #1246 Pot Debate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHwSmwEwmV4
1 region of the world has any correlations of cannabis use : murder rate absolutly beat.
New England. Specifically, Vermont, New Hampshire, & Maine. These 3 States are all within the top 10 for firearms per capita, NH is #1 for automatics & title 2 weapons per capita. Though; None of these States have ever had a firearms registry. – ever. None of these States have concealed weapons permits (of any kind.) So, these States are more realistically towards the top of the top10 of firearm ownership, rather than the back half. As all #’s of ownership within are based only on FFL sales, not private party, or new residents of the State.
These 3 States have an "on the books" estimated 20% cannabis usage through their populations. Though, in polling; a 60-70% favorability towards legalizing/decriminalizing. In VT, ME, cannabis is 100% legal, NH is decriminalized. The cannabis usage rate has been rather stagnant (and high) for decades, in all 3 states.
These 3 States are within the top 5 for least murder, just about every single year, for just about the entire US history. NH & VT are frequently exchanging for #1 lowest murder. VT is the State with the lowest homicide by police officer.
The most guns. The least absolute rules & regulations surrounding them. Profound history of cannabis culture – lowest murder region IN THE Nation.
Despair causes murder. This region, these States. For the past 3 decades have ranked in the top 5 on 4/5 key demographics of societies today. Tops in; education, wages, well being, life expectancy. The 5th is GDP generated.
The largest GDP areas of America have the most absolute despair. The most poverty (20+%, every major city.) Illiteracy (20+%, every major city), the most unemployment, decade long wage stagnation, highest housing costs, worst food markets. Gee, no wonder there is immeasurable amounts of murder.
If cannabis use alone contributed to a guaranteed murder frequency, with the abundance of firearms and no regard to invade with hostile regulations, and an almost historic cannabis culture, our murder rate should be considerable to USAs largest cities. But it is actually 90% LESS. A murder rate of .1 per 100k. One of the lowest in the world.
Now; can being intoxicated lead to murder? Absolutly. And rather easily in the wrong situation. This comes down to sensible consumption, and sensible sales. Selling gummies by the package that contains 8 doses but is the size of a lunch treat pack, is stupid. Having single edible treats with 4 doses within is absolutly stupid. Circle back to a societies education. In N. New England there has never been a weed induced murder spree (or even a spree to begin with!) – majority of New England has always been a high performer in education, especially liberal/revolutionary, if which amounts to actual sense/results.
– Denver, where that man ate a weeks worth of gummies & then killed his wife. One of the highest dropout regions in the US. Educationally & on a cost of living scale to that of LA, while on a pop. Density scale of N.E. & a more viable State-wide economy vs centrally located. (If Denver up’d its education performances, all other factors would decline/increase on performances.)
If you have a brain disorder marijuana can cause harm
He’s full of shit. He’s saying all of that bullshit just to sell his book. I bet most of the studies that demonize weed are funded by pharmaceutical companies.
There’s also such messed up and weak ass minded people now that Sadly pot will be causing problems for those guys, it still isn’t worth the continuing battle for OUR rights to it, society becoming more weak minded and crazy I mean.
Could it have something to do with the increase in potency of weed especially edibles and dabs. The way ppl describe the effects sounds more like synthetic cannabinoids or hallucinogens.
I don’t believe marijuana causes psychosis. My feelings about the plant are very positive. However, I recently had a friend who became psychotic and killed a mutual friend with a hatchet. He smoked a lot and his usage was strangely time-coincidental to the murder he committed. But…so was his use of Pepsi. The question I’m not sure of is whether marijuana can be a trigger for someone who is inevitably headed toward psychosis. I can’t think of any legitimate study that would lead to any real input. Thanks for your great podcast, Joe.
People who smoke and have phycosis… smoke or not they already had phycosis… also this dude keeps citing one source and claims it as fact… marijuana helps me stay calm and stay away from being violent
I smoke every day have for 25 years and nothing wrong here, that dude is crazy
dude is the definition of confirmation bias. dismisses every other research says its bad. just wants to sell his book. i agree people with mental illness shouldn’t smoke weed. just look @ 26:40 quotes fbi but when fbi is quoted against him "you are wrong"
It doesn’t cause psychosis it just speeds up its progression in people already psychotic.
ONE SPEAKER AT A TIME! THIS IS BULLSHIT!
This debate started 100 years ago. What makes you think it will end now? Let’s just keep it objective some good some bad. Do what’s best for your body.
He is full of shit, I know that I only smoke and don’t do anything else, don’t drink either and the last thing I want to do is commit a crime, and I’m very happy in my life.
How does Joe know that his friend wasn’t already on the brink of skitzo before he started smoking? He seems to dismiss that possibility by saying "it made him that way."
If combined with a violent/abusive home hell yeah 100%.
The cannabis, schizophrenia, and psychosis debate is complicated.
On one hand, there’s an interesting case to be made for a causal relationship between cannabis and psychosis, as well as schizophrenia.
According to a comprehensive 2014 review, "The relationship between cannabis and schizophrenia fulfills many but not all of the standard criteria for causality, including temporality, biological gradient, biological plausibility, experimental evidence, consistency, and coherence" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033190/).
Prospective, longitudinal investigations have helped to control for self-medication (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3047001/ , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539839/ , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC135493/ , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/). As noted by a 2009 review, "Since several longitudinal studies excluded people with psychosis at baseline, or adjusted for psychotic symptoms in the analysis, the observed association between cannabis and psychosis is unlikely to reflect reverse causation" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864503/). Most of the time, cannabis use precedes psychotic symptoms and psychosis (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21498049 , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21883099/ , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8372691/). When people smoke more of it, the risk increases – supporting the case for causation (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(07)61162-3/fulltext , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4988731/). When people smoke more potent strains, the risk for psychosis increases even further (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(14)00117-5/abstract). And vulnerable cannabis users are likely to trigger psychosis earlier than vulnerable non-users (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21300939).
However, there are some limitations. For example, the temporality research is mostly focused on positive symptoms.
This review goes into more detail:
>> Epidemiological studies have traditionally examined the relationship of cannabis use and psychosis as defined by positive psychotic symptoms. It is unclear whether the same temporal relationship holds for cognitive deficits or negative symptoms of psychosis, which usually predate the onset of positive psychotic symptoms << – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033190/
In a similar manner, another paper points out: >> The emergence of positive symptoms may be the final step in the evolution of schizophrenia. Negative and cognitive symptoms are more difficult to recognize than positive psychotic symptoms, and often precede positive symptoms. This makes pinpointing the onset of illness and therefore establishing the temporal relationship between cannabis exposure and schizophrenia challenging… As such, it is again emphasized that most epidemiological studies have not taken into account negative and cognitive symptoms, which are thought to occur earlier than positive ones << – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4352721/
Furthermore, in the context of actual cannabis use (not Delta-9-THC alone), the experimental evidence is lacking. What does the experimental evidence look like?
As highlighted by a 2014 review: >>In randomized, placebo-controlled, experimental settings, acute psychosis in response to THC intoxication is quite common and reproducible (89, 95, 350)… Unlike studying acute effects, an experimental approach to characterize the effects of chronic, heavy, and early cannabis exposure is neither ethical nor feasible. << – (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033190/
So yeah, a randomized-controlled trial assessing cannabis use over the long term would be unethical. But we do have alternatives. When a randomized controlled trial would be unethical, one of the next best things would be a Mendelian randomization study.
As explained in a 2018 paper: >> Despite the consistency of observational data, clarifying whether or not cannabis use causally influences risk of schizophrenia has remained challenging. This is because observational studies, even accounting for confounding factors, can be affected by biases that undermine the validity (such as residual confounding).2 As such, the ability to answer the question on causality has been at an impasse, as a randomized controlled trial (considered the gold standard to test a hypothesis) is not possible for ethical reasons, as it would involve exposing participants to a potentially harmful exposure (a similar scenario to examining whether alcohol protects against risk of cardiovascular disease).29 In this setting, an MR approach can provide pivotal information on causality that can be of public health importance and inform guidelines.30 << – https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2016252?fbclid=IwAR0vzormfyOtsHKC-1Q5q07-xnw84o7tT09w9214CplNZFWXDEQgvb5c4iI
Interestingly enough, the research is a mixed bag on this front. One Mendelian randomization study in Molecular Psychiatry 2018 presented strong evidence in support of a causal interpretation (https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2016252). But a previous Mendelian randomization study in Psychological Medicine 2017 found stronger evidence for reverse causation (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5341491/).
Although, another Mendelian ranomization study concluded: >> Our findings provide little evidence of a causal association between smoking initiation and schizophrenia, in either direction. However, we cannot rule out a causal effect of smoking on schizophrenia related to heavier, lifetime exposure, rather than initiation. << – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5244403/
At the moment, the Mendelian randomized evidence is conflicting. This conflicting Mendelian randomization research is another limitation of the causal argument.
It’s a well proven fact that people who have psychosis are not at high risk of committing violent crimes. It’s actually a very low percentage … so this guys just making shit up .
If you use weed to drown out life and suppress the pain, you will make yourself numb to life. You get what you ask for. That is psychosis.
The meathead in the middle of this discussion is an idiot. Look moron someone that can drink all day while others cant take one drink. Ive seen weed destroy plenty of people. Hes defending weed to the fullist while NOT thinking.
Marijuana+vaporizer=psychosis.
All school shooters were on meds that fucked their head.
Facts.
I have nocturnal epilepsy. I had a series of seizures & when I went to the the hospital the doctor said it was because of marijuana. How it does he didn’t know. But I do know some growers put insecticide & pesticides which isn’t good regardless. But how can cbd oils help epileptics but marijuana cause it Im at a loss. Also the medications they prescribe has way worse side effects than marijuana & makes a lot of bad people rich. I’m at a loss. I’m willing to try anything to end this epilepsy. But to hear that marijuana can cause it Im still confused on how & why.
Both sides are right the herb has helped and hurt my mental illnesses it just depends on how much and how i use it. If i smoke 1 grams a day and do something positive and stimulating when i do almost all symptoms are unnoticeable ill also smoke all day everyday, several grams a day to stop severe mood swings and paranoia but if i do it to long or dont add some other healing activity to the mix i can put myself in a bad mental state. You have to know yourself.
This guy appears hell bent to demonize cannabis
people who need pot, when off the pot, would just annoy the people against it so there’s no pleasing anyone who goes outta there way to speak against our right to use it especially While booze is legal simple as that.
So he is pushing pills lol
(10:30) about petterson eating meat and being healthier then he has ever been. However you got to look at those factors of everyone is different. There are some who eat greens and are just as healthy some that fast for days (aparently), Theres is also a guy that injects himself with snake venom.
lack and void and demoniati0n of MJ can 🖒
Why does he not make eye contact when stating things as though they’re facts when everyone knows they aren’t… Oh wait. Lying. Right. Book salesman. Check. Shits legal in Canada and we are really NOT killing each other. Not anymore than normal. I mean, someone takes my brownies and polite Canadian goes RIGHT OUT THE FUCKING WINDOW Because you DONNNT unerSSSSSSssssssss……kill….kill….kill…kill…kill…kill…kill…kill…kill…kill…kill…kill…kill…kill…kill…
Did he just admit that he thinks about stabbing his grandma right there? He looks paranoid af and is high so probably slipped out? 🤷♂️
This guy obviously never puffed on a joint in his life
A close minded person can’t teach you something…
It’s true I had to cope with that
He shilling hard.
MJ can be quite dangerous for persons with underlying mental conditions. Unfortunately many have mental conditions which they self medicate to get some relief from. There are definitely instances where this just makes things worse. Sometimes, much worse.
1000th comment
The guy in the St John’s t-shirt is super fucking annoying and just needs to shut the fuck up and at least try to be open minded. I smoked lots of weed when I was young and it did me no harm. On the other hand, I have a family member who completely lost his mind after smoking weed. I can attest that it can be absolutely fucking destructive and brutal.
We all know that marijuana is a gateway drug into the use of stronger narcotics and if you want to see the final fruit of drug abuse look at the violence in Mexico and latin America.
Crazy thought here.. but what if those people diagnosed with "psychosis" arent expierencing/seeing something that isnt there but really is there, and when smoking cannabis enhances their ability to see what isnt there for us but is for him/her, which then makes them more prone to doing something violent because they’re experiencing something our society doesnt understand; makes them feel crazy, therefore reacts irrationally, and is the reason to why they may or may not act violently or suspiciously different. And Whether you wanna call it special powers at be, the mind connecting certain cells that normally wouldn’t be connected which gives the person in question the ability to see this. . And, these are things we would never know because once someone’s diagnosed we immediately say they are crazy for seeing what they see.. and what they see isnt really there. . Just cause you cant see it, why does it mean it’s not there on another plane? Just a thought lol
its no wonder why I want to break my beer bottle over hippy skulls!
What if marijuana doesn’t cause psychosis, but rather is the medicine for psychosis caused by modern life?
Great information. I can smoke weed and all it does is cause me to be hungry and want to crash out. Sometimes makes me think too much. lol But I know people who have mental illness in their families and I’ve watched them go from being basically "normal" to totally unexpected irrational behavior. Nothing violent really. But a woman I know was in a happy marriage. Her husband would do anything for her. Anything. After she started smoking weed on a daily basis she started exhibiting sexual addiction behavior. Random "one night stands" with basically whoever was willing. It destroyed their marriage. Another aquaintence of mine started smoking regularly and then would go on these spending sprees knowing fully well that they couldn’t afford it. I attribute those types of things to their marijuana use. Both of those examples have mental illness in their family "tree". But I also know countless people who smoke daily and nothing changes in their day to day. They continue to work raise their families interact with people who don’t smoke regularly etc.. I can totally see the tie to people with mental illness in their family tree and when they start smoking weed their behavior becomes what most people "crazy" or irrational. Today’s weed seems to be so much more potent than it was 40 or more years ago. Smoke less for a.more intense high. That I think has more to do with it than just some guys homegrown weed.
This is for Joe Rogan. I am diagnosed with psychosis and bipolar. I used meth and other hard drugs, but love marijuana. From my experience with mental health issues is that when I take my mental health medications and smoke large amounts of weed my psychosis kicks in. When I only take my medication or just smoke weed im okay, but my medications have weird side effects like spontaneous gambling from (Abilify).( Risperdal) makes men grow breast like women. Thats why i stopped them. My psychiatrist wont prescribe me marihuana because U.S. goverment owns the patents for cannabis oil since the hippie days. Its a conspiracy. Tell Eddie Bravo about it. Lets get this topic discussed.
Cannabis is not a bad thing may even help some people but it’s not for everyone and can cause major mental issues for some especially high doses but these issues happen because it hasn’t been legalised so it’s not being regulated that one guy is over reacting tho and talking out his ass
If your alergic to peanuts you cant eat peanuts. If your crazy dont smoke something that affects your mind. Weed isnt the skeleton key plants that is 100% for every human being ffs. Its helps many thats a fact, it wont help everybody thats a fact.
Now we know, Canadians are not airways polite.
So basically we just dont know hahahhahaa.
This guy smokes mids.
I’m a person who just does not go good with weed. It’s fun for about 5 minutes for me then I HAAAAAATE IT. Figured it out young too…like at 12-13…then tried again several times into my 20s…but I also grew up around severe mental illness so maybe when I’d see those attributes in myself when I smoked it shyed me away from it. I mean after going to some legal states and smoking certain strains I feel “ok” but never have ever loved it. I get way to in my head and it just scares me. So I choose not to do it. But damn near everyone I know uses it….shit saved my dads life…has/had small cell lung cancer…he was given 23 weeks to live 8 years ago, no formal treatment…quit drinking, quit cigs….increased marijuana use…and he’s cancer free 🤷🏼♂️🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Marijuana does not kill people, the problems that led them to marijuana kills them, lol.